How about this: “it just ain’t right.” Reason enough to vote down this madness.

@ Eric: According to whose "laws" ... "ain't" it not right? YOURS? Go look at your own closed-minded mug in the mirror very closely before condemning people you have never met and whose lives YOU have arbitrarily decided aren't right. Might not be "right" for you because you are straight. But others are NOT hetero. So, exactly WHO gave you the power to decide what is right and wrong for others? "mADNESS?" REALLY? Do you peek into other peoples's bedrooms to decide what they "madness" they can and can not perform in the privacy of their own homes? And PLEASE don't pull the bible-thumping routine; it's xenophobic, ill-informed and very tiresome.

UGH! Yes, I agree. This is not at all about her and she does need to get over herself. I don't understand why people can't wake up and get over this. Heterosexuals have been ruining the "constitution of marriage" for years.

I don't even see why this is an issue in 2013. And where is the separation of church and state??? Somehow, we've all lost sight of that and it's getting super annoying. I can't believe how many intolerant people are still out there.

Looks like you resent Renee letting everyone know her position. It's against my faith also, should I get over myself? There are many people who for religious reasons or just personal reasons are against same sex marriage. Guess they should get over themselves too. Maybe you need to respect other opinions and get over yourself.

Here's the difference, Barbara. Our beliefs are not denying anybody their basic rights. Sure, Renee is entitled to her opinion on gay marriage, as all of us are. The difference is that YOUR rights (I'm assuming as a heterosexual) are not being denied or restricted in any way. How are two homosexual people choosing to marry each other affecting or even offending you??

My God, if she can't stand by her faith and moral convictions, we have a problem (and we DO have a problem in America, or "redefining marriage" would not be an issue). She has a right to stand up for what she believes. What's not right is liberals hating on Christians who are not afraid to express their faith. She has NOTHING to be ashamed of. We need more people defending the sanctity of marriage.

@J. Ann

>defending the sanctity of marriage

I just spit out my drink. Too priceless.

How do you rationalize legally excluding a class of people from an institution as 'defending'... anything? Dear God, the logical gymnastics your mind must go through have got to be laborious.

@Adam---It's really easy; it's about defending what the Bible says is right and safe and moral behavior. It's not against a class of people. It's about righteousness. Don't get caught hating the messenger---I didn't write it, God did. So it's not about "getting over myself" as some would say. Those who say that are a law unto themselves, and can't even begin to consider honoring and submitting to what God---a higher authority---has to say. And He says it because He loves us and cares for our well-being, but we get mad at Him if He tells us things we don't agree with---so I think that is the attitude we have to "get over".

@J.Ann: Problem is, not everyone believes in YOUR version of religion! (OMG REALLY??!!) That's why there is separation of church and state.... to avoid the issues that the Pilgrims faced in England with the Anglican/Catholic Church and its oppressive ways. And if you truly believe your way is the only way, then I have a bridge to sell 'ya because you clearly are that gullible and narrow-minded. You are free to practice and believe whatever you want; you are NOT free to impose legal restrictions on someone else simply because your version of "religion" makes you think you are right. In that case, please prepare for Sharia law.... LOL... clearly, mental gymnastics are not your strong suit.

J. Ann - Allow me to quote you once again...

"Problem is, we want to define things by our own judgments and feelings, thus making ourselves little gods. That's very dangerous!"

One minute you're telling us what's written in the Bible and the meaning of those words, yet......again, I will quote you.

"We cannot understand the HEART of the Scriptures unless we have the author of the Scriptures living on the inside and enlightening us. Even then, it'll take a lifetime and then eternity to begin to understand it, it's just too deep for our human minds to fathom. Be that as it may, it's a joy and a privilege to be given the opportunity to start that journey. But no one can understand the mind of God except the Spirit of God—

Let's simplify shall we? "Love one another; as I have loved you" and states that: "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples."
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

The issue is, Bette, that Renee is supposed to represent the people, all of them. This would include people outside of her faith. She is a politician, not a church leader. If she would prefer to force others to live by her "faith", she should not be a politician.

You can't base civil law off of a religious text. Do you have no regard for the Founding Fathers?

I agree Bette, and it's so sad that there are so many angry, insulting, Christian bashers in the world. They have not a clue what the Bible says, and could care even less. It's the result of years of indoctrination in the public schools and of course the liberal media and Hollywood trash. TV doesn't help either. They have drunk the kool-aide and are so very proud of it. We are certainly no longer in Kansas, ToTo! :( What ever happened to denying ourselves and delaying gratification---things like self-control and respect? People have so much hate and anger towards God's way of doing things. They are called the "haters of the Lord" in the Bible, and I would not want to be called that on the day of Judgment. I would rather honor Him and do things His way, trusting He knows what's best for me, even if I have to struggle with it.

Hmmmm,,, thought PERSONAL freedom was the first guarantee of the Declaration and Constitution.... hypocrites! Assuming others should bend to YOUR xenophobic religious beliefs is NOT a protected right.... look it up some time.

It's my religious beliefs that everyone have human rights. So Renee is going against my religious freedom. King - don't you think I have the right to my freedoms? Or is it as long as it agrees with your choices of beliefs?

@Laura---and everyone's a hypocrite but you, right? How do you get on in this world, oh righteous one? :D

@J. Ann: I "get on" in this world because I do NOT require that everyone must PRACTICE what I believe or believe what I believe. I believe individuals of ALL religious and spiritual beliefs can live their own lives in fulfuillment, in peace, with love and without prejudice. I assiduously DO NOT interfere (or even assume I have the right!) with their AMERICAN RIGHT to practice life and religion as they choose as long as it does not "harm" others, by limitiing their life choices or physically harming them or their loved ones. You clearly are unable to say the same without hypocrisy in you heart and, now bared to the world! Must feel so GOOD to be you! I feel sorry for your ilk. Organized religion as you admit to practicing it ( based on your specious, prejudiced comments here) is the root of more strife, intolerance and prejudice. How DO you get on in this modern world? LMAO!

It's more about keeping the STATE out of the church, and not the CHURCH out of the state. Thomas Jefferson/Danbury church I believe.

Absolutely nothing from the writings of Jefferson would support what you say, J. Ann. But right-wingers are fans of revisionist, fictional history, aren't they?

He clarified the meaning of "separation of church and state", as I stated. You an atheist?

J. Ann - Why is it you assume everyone who doesn't think like you are Atheists? Do you realize just how many times you use that term in your comments? I found at least 6 in comments made by you in Patch postings....yet...this is a direct quote from you...

"We need to love and accept one another, and that includes agnostics and atheists. Let's resolve not to mock one another, or our chosen faith, as mature adults.

@Lori C. Since you were doing your homework regarding my posting history, make sure you double check and see that the young lady I was speaking with on another post claimed she was an agnostic, and was bashing the Catholic church I believe, and I made note that we all need to love and accept one another---and then, in referencing HER (as self proclaimed agnostic), I said that INCLUDED her as an agnostic. I referenced atheists also, because whenever I post a comment about God, I inevitably get a comment about Christian's believing "fantasies and tales", from one "rabidatheist" poster (a nice guy I'm guessing). That is the ONLY reason I dealt with atheism, believe me, and I have nothing against them, other than their general attitude of mockery and twisting of the Scriptures. I hope that helps straighten out your theory, Lori. :)

>He clarified the meaning of "separation of church and state", as I stated. You an atheist?

What he said does not support your misrepresentation. Here is the letter in full - http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

Seriously, how on Earth do you twist this into some sort of bizarre one-way wall? Been paying too much attention to David Barton?

It has nothing to do with hate E.L., it has to do with what is right. Stop with the "hate" lingo. No one has used that word to protest gay marriage. They just don't believe it's the way God intended. They can spend the rest of their lives together and love each other, but marriage is for a man and a woman.

@Barbara A. And you, of course, are in the unique position to determine what is right and wrong, correct? Somehow, I thought that mantel was worn by someone else who mentioned something like, "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone..." You holy rollers make me laugh! So hypocritical; pray in the morning and then act as though you are holier-than-thou once you're out the church doors. Marriage is a legal entity that should be available to anyone who is of age and gives voluntary consent. Religion has nothing to do with the marriage licensing required. And you are so wrong. This entire issue has everything to do with hate, fear, ignorance and religious zealots trying to deny other people their constitutional rights. Get your issues straight: No one is forcing (or even asking) churches to perform religious ceremonies. But the government, whether federal or state, can not discriminate based on gender, any more than it could continue discriminating based on race. Period. You may not like it, but your archaic beliefs do not trump others' Constitutional rights. Legalizing gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone and will help many. Besides, how many "religious" heteros are unable to maintain long-term, exclusive relationships, end up divorced one or more times and still consider themselves more righteous than others? What a crock!

If procreation is the sole basis of marriage, men who've had vasectomies or women who've had their tubes tied shouldn't be allowed to get married either. As for civil unions being an acceptable alternative; someone should have told Rosa Parks that the back of the bus gets her home at the same time that the front of the bus does.

So if a man or woman were sterile, unable to have children they shouldn't be allowed to marry? Come up with a better argument.

I think you are confused. 1) you don't need to have a marriage ceremony in a church for it to be legal. 2) the church doesn't have to have a ceremony for anyone they chose not to (and they have denied people already) The Church doesn't control marriage. The church cannot determine who is allowed to marry. If you aren't having a marriage ceremony in the walls of the church, the church has zero say in the matter.

Thank you Saint Michael!!!!!

Is "Get over yourself" the new liberal put down? Can't call me racist on this one? How about Jesus freak? That's always a winner for you atheists.

We are not pushing our beliefs on to anyone, you liberals are shoving your twisted belief onto us and we've had enough.

Michael, this would make you a bigot. You are far from Sainthood and I think is insulting to your own religion. You claim equality pushes beliefs onto everyone yet you want people to live by how you interrupt part of a 2,000 year old book you chose to believe in? Tell me, do you insult people with tattoos, people who eat shell fish or figs?

Hey Bird... go into your Patch settings and adjust your Email Notifications to "Email me when someone writes on my profile board" :-) I sent you a message I'd like you to read.

Lori C-I changed my account settings, but I can't find the message..

Shoot! I tried to send again and it says "Pending Approval"...not sure who has to approve. LOL
Have you looked at the "Board" on your Patch profile and it's not there? UGH...so much for "Leaving a note for your neighbor" :-(

Well Bird, I sent an email to Patch trying to figure out why you couldn't see my message and this is the response i received.

"Thanks for writing in. Unfortunately, this is a part of our site that no longer serves it's function and we do not use anymore. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Oh well...basically wanted to tell you to fly high and not to let the hate and misunderstanding of others ruffle your feathers! LOL
Both you and Eileen Finn shouldn't even bother wasting your energy on the likes of some of these people.
I almost laugh at some of them...Eric Blair just commented on how the devil works. Well in my opinion the negative comments that people are putting on here is the devils work...The God that I know and love would never want His name associated with such negativity.

If only we could find a way to Put a bird on them!
After all, the easiest way to improve something or someone is to "Put a bird on it". :-) ♥

Thank you, Lori C! After reading so many hateful posts, this one really made my day-I won't let this ruffle my feathers anymore. It's only a matter of time to when this will no longer be an issue or a debate and the same sex marriage bill will be passed in every state. Your words were very kind and much appreciated!

I'm sure Michael would LOVE to stay as far away from you as possible. "No athiests trying to deny your rights"? I beg to differ. I will also stay far away from you with pleasure.

Barbara - which of your religious rights is being denied to you? I am curious?

YOU are twisted, Michael. That is not at all what Eileen or anybody else who supports gay marriage is saying. Your argument is annoying and super unintelligent. YOU, Michael, need the help.

Bird beat me to it.. I don't know why I bother speaking to people like you. You always have to invoke the ridiculous to try and justify your obvious bigotry. Here's a thought, moron - try to argue a point WITHOUT putting words in your opponent's mouth. Oh wait, I realize that's a little too hard for you because then you have no argument. And Barb - you have no idea the joy you bring me when you say you'll stay far away from me.. you're clearly not a person I'd like to know. Yet another hit and run commentator who throws things out there like "I beg to differ" but gives no concrete evidence on why he/she "differs". It's just hilarious. It's like trying to talk physics to grade-schoolers. Not a fair fight really.

"??? Michael", first off, you are the farthest thing from a Saint...You sir, need to "get over yourself".
My CHRISTIAN beliefs are very important to ME and I do not really care what anyone things of them, nor do I think anyone should live by my beliefs.

"My religious beliefs are important to me and are my law. I wont cast them aside"
Who is asking you to "cast aside" your beliefs? A STRONG CHRISTAN, who is firm in their beliefs, would not have to worry about anyone or anything having the ability to "cast aside" their beliefs. Hummmmm, something you may want to ponder.

You're absolutely repulsive, Michael. You are exactly what is wrong with this society. I hope your friend here pray for you.

Wow. If you were a real man, you'd post your real name.

THANK YOU Lori C - that's EXACTLY the point. Human rights. Of course, according to people like "Saint Michael" - those of us trying to get something as basic as human rights are "twisted" and "negative dykes". Really nice. Such a great example of a loving Christian. It cracks me up that people who claim to follow the "word of god" to the letter forget the biggest message Jesus ever gave (since he repeated it over and over) - love thy neighbor or love one another. If Jesus were still alive today, I'm sure he'd be considered a hippie.. peace and love and all that - and he'd be scorned by half of those who claim to follow him. "Saint Michael" is a PERFECT example of this. He can't argue or debate a subject with any intelligence, so he resorts to the basest of name-calling.. Dyke. <rolling eyes> How original.

So well said Lori C. Marriage is an institution by individuals who are joined in a consensual contractual relationship. No amount of religion gives anyone the right to judge if it be between a man and a woman or two same sex individuals. Love Thy Neighbor, not Judge Thy Neighbor. Not deny Thy Neighbor because you think your ways are most righteous. You don't get the right to judge, Only one person and one person only has that power. If you feel it is a sin, that's ok. That is one less sin that you need to ask forgiveness for. If others do not feel it is a sin, that is their choice as well. Either way, all people should be treated fairly regardless of their faith. Representative Renee Kosel seems to have failed to learn this amendment right which is so sad because it makes me wonder what other issues she has decided for her constituents based on her faith. Clearly that is someone I do not want representing me not my community.

I love when non-believers tell Christians how they should behave and what Jesus would do in today's world. It's very entertaining.

John 2:12-22

Here you go, Michael. What would Jesus do??

Jesus himself never marries, and only comments on marriage when he commands his followers to abandon their wives and children to follow him (see Matthew 19:29; Mark 10:28-30; Luke 9:57-62).
Yes, that’s right – Jesus orders his followers to abandon their families. To emphasize the point, Jesus even takes the time to provide instruction to his followers on how to divorce their wives (see Matthew 19:5; Mark 10:8).

Seems to me like Jesus is against all types of marriage...

I love how entitled, know-it-alls think that non-believer = ignorant. Here's a shocker for you - some of us know quite a bit about your beloved bible. Some of us were taught it with extreme fervor for most of our lives and could probably skewer you in some ridiculous bible trivia. Some of us understand the concepts and teachings and choose to embrace the spirit of those teachings without becoming holier-than-thou, self-righteous, narcissistic, bigoted people. Try again. John 13:34-35

Bette, in case you haven't noticed, the United States is not a Christian only country. Many people worship many different gods in this country. You said that to judge is God's job in your above post, please adhere to that belief

Good job, couldn't have said it better myself. Be prepared for the backlash from the disturbed individuals who will call you a holy roller and say you're hateful. LOL

That explains it, you’re really Jewish. So what’s with the Irish pen name?

Quit attacking Saint Michael. You sound ridiculous. Everyone has a right to their opinion. You and Karen need to relax.

Got an aspirin?

Love it Arthur!

"Being Gay is obvious not a natural." "...handicap that should be suppressed...."
I'm soooo glad you were appointed to the post of Supreme Decision-maker! Clint (are you Dirty Harry as well??) do us all a favor and remember to STOP having sex once your wife is past menopause, and certainly ensure that sterile men & women of all ages never have sex. Because clearly sex is ONLY meant as a means to "propagate" the species (by what, root cuttings?) Ignorance is forgivable; stupidity isn't!

Clint - the Bible claims incest. Adam and Eve were the only people created by GOd, had 7 children who populated the Earth....

Laura
I bet no one has had sex with you in years.

How are taxpayers "required" to support straight spouses?

What ARE you blathering about?? "Special rules?" Not quite... if you'd please jettison teh blinders long enough, you'd have figured out that right now the rules are "special" in that they prevent certain groups (based solely on gender) from exercising their constitution right to a legal marriage. So, HOW is the special? Oh, that's right: It's the exact same argument (not "natural;" requires special rules, etc., etc.) used by the bigots in the Deep South until the middle 1960s to preach against the evils of mixed-race marriages.

I find it hard to believe you weren't reading the comments as they were coming through yesterday. It's fine to have an opinion, but when your opinion is hateful, violent and absurd, then those comments need to be removed, or the repeat offenders need to be banned. But wait, this isn't really about people's opinions..it's about the number of hits to this site or this article.

I haven't been looking at comments all day, but just saw that original comment as well and deleted it.

Curious: How is gun control, single payer health care, drones, drivers license and even gay marriage have anything to do with religion?

Grace, the only thing aberrant is the behavior of those smug, arrogant, religion-steeped bigots (like you?) who think their religious beliefs trumps others' constitutional rights! I really don't care if you dislike the concept, equal treatment under the law should be protected.

If you chose to make ridiculous, unintelligent comment, you should be prepared for a little flack. Being gay is not a choice people make, Grace. Grow up and educate yourself.

Well said.

Shawn - the church recognizes other religions yet won't perform the ceremony. Example, I have a catholic friend who married a Jewish person, church refused to do ceremony. So, they are not going to be forced to perform ceremonies they choose not to. The church doesn't own marriage

Karen, I don't think anyone should be seriously concerned about the state forcing Religious to performing homosexual marriages, your example is proof of this. What I think some religious communities fear is that they may be forced by law to either stop providing a service like adoption placement or place a child in what they believe to be moral and spiritual harm in a homosexual couples home.

@ J. Ann: Your arrogance is laughable, especially if you truly were raised under and practice the bible! Please spare us all your comedy routine: MANY people are well-inculcated (I can explain the wrod to you, if needs be) and well-indoctrinated into organized religion; many do not bear the malice toward others that you so clearly do! Perhaps consider a nice, restful, relxing weekend retreat to re-examine your malicious comments and ways! Ha... your problem would be that you could nbever recognize your shortcomings if Jesus himself rose from the dead and smacked you in the face with them! Have a nice life; you'll need it before your Hellfire. (Wait, did I really steal that from you? Oh well... sorrryyy (not).)

Vicious? Seriously? Please, Barbara, chill out, grab a dictionary and seriously consider taking some continuing education classes around critical thinking skills, philosophy and world religions. It seems you lack the ability to distinguish logic from the circular, fallacious arguments you were brainwashed into believing. And it sounds as though you lack the intellectual capacity to recognize when you should question what you are being spoon-fed. Cheers, Dear! LMAO!

@ Barbara---you're assessment of the vicious attacker is correct, but she's pretty full of herself---and proud of her biting sarcasm, which is a sign of her deep seated bitterness towards those she disagrees with. Can't reason with people like that---it only serves to provoke them all the more. We just have to duck as we pass by her ugly insults. It's coming back to her eventually.

So Holy Roller is an vicious insult? Wow.... guess these so-called Christians have really thin skins. Again, to these bigots who believe they only have the right way to live: consider practicing a bit of what your version of organized religion preaches: tolerance, the Golden Rule, love they neighbor.... on second thought, unsure you understand those concepts. Oh well...your loss!

@laura
It's not always organized religion, though I bet that's all you've ever known (I'm sorry about that). Some of us have a RELATIONSHIP. As for the rest, I will bite my tongue. :) Be blessed.

@ J. Ann: Your arrogance is laughable, especially if you truly were raised under and practice the tenets of the bible! Please spare us all your comedy routine: MANY people are well-inculcated (I can explain the word to you, if needs be) and indoctrinated into religion; many do not bear the malice and smug, condescending attitude toward others that you so clearly do! You truly believe you are superior and brag about a personal "relationship" with religion or god. Hmmm, I recall that pridefulness qualifies as a sin, is it not? Perhaps consider a nice, restful, relaxing weekend retreat to re-examine your sinful ways! Ha... your problem would be that you could nbever recognize your shortcomings if Jesus himself rose from the dead and smacked you in the face with them! Have a nice life; you'll need it before your He**fire. (Wait, did I really steal that line from you?)

@J.Ann: Truly, I have absolutely NO interest in pursuing what you so arrogantly call a personal "relationship" with some distorted version of religion that you assume makes your specious, outmoded deliusional arguments palatable while they simultaneously hamstringing others' constitutional rights. So please DO bite your prideful tongue; we'd all love the ensuing quiet as we go on with our lives in peace and without the harmful bigotry you espouse.

Please tell me this was meant to be sarcastic? You can't actually be serious? Although I guess your use of the term "psycho-analysis" already tells us plenty if you were being serious.. Clearly, you should save your pity and prayers for yourself. A little education might help as well.

Inform us how it works. I keep hearing" it isn't a choice-it's just the way the brain is wired." That's exactly how it is for alcoholics and drug abusers- brain wiring.

Talking through your issues with a trained professional might help- have you ever tried it? It won't make you straight, but hopefully you will come to an understanding and stop hating yourself and others so much.

Wow John. You are completely ignorant and pathetic. It sounds like you hate yourself, and I'm guessing you're not that well liked in general. Your words are empty and foolish.

Jon, First, I am a "straight" Christian who carries John 4:16 close to my heart every day. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
Conversion Therapy or "Pray the gay away" has been "tried" since the 1920's and is proven NOT to work. If anything, causing more damage than good to those forced to undergo this "treatment". Many of those "fixed" by this treatment pretend to be "cured" and lie about their true feelings. They suffer from a higher rate of depression and suicide than those that have not been "cured".
No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and virtually all of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that report to change sexual orientation.
They do NOT suffer from an addiction, or any form of mental illness for that matter. If there is a cause for any mental afflictions they may suffer, it most likely is due to the amount of turmoil they face on a daily basis from the likes you and others who are posting on this thread.
I for one, do not pity nor pray for these people....but instead pity and pray for those who leave negative comments. I pray for those who can't accept ALL of God's children, no matter how different they may be from themselves. I pray that these people will someday live by Mark 12:31 "Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." I pray this in the name of Our Father ~ Amen

i as a sensible man i agree with you jon. it starts with low self esteem. Loners attract other loners.

No idea why I'm even bothering to answer you. It's clear you don't really WANT an answer you can learn anything from because your closed mind is made up. However, think about this.. When did you know you were straight? Wasn't it just how your "brain was wired"? I mean, I'm sure you could probably talk to a "psycho-analyst" about it and he/she could explain to you all the reasons why nature picked you to be straight. Maybe then you wouldn't be so worried about the "why" and just accept it. And maybe then we all wouldn't have to deal with such inane comments.

I find your comments to be oddly contradictory, btw. First you say the "lifestyle" should be "treated" by psycho-analysis and medications (how 1950's of you!), but then you state I should "talk through issues.." but that "it won't make you straight". Huh? I thought the cure was "psycho-analysis and medication". Which is it, Jon?

So, Jon Voight, ashamed to atttach your illogical blathering to your real name? Does that possibly mean you are gay and truly understand what it means? Or does it simply mean you are yet another uninformed, fearful xenophobe who thinks he can either "fix" or legislate away what he doesn't understand and therefore fears I suppose it is much easier to dismiss another human being out-of-hand rather than do the hard work of taking a scientific approach to understanding the variables of life. I do pity people afflicted with such laziness and rancor toward those unlike themselves!.

Exactly! I guess ALL women should go buy their burquas soon, according to these religious trolls!

Absolutely Brian...well said! I will not be voting for anyone that brings their religious beliefs into political debates.

Renee, you were elected to represent the people in your district and vote for what is in their best interest, not what fits or doesn't fit into your personal religious beliefs.

Brilliant! Brian, your kids are very lucky!

NL Mom...you sure hit the nail on the head!
For the life of me, I can't figure out how people bring religion into this...one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Why is it people think OUR Government should adhere to their religious beliefs?
I find it kind of ironic that in the state of Illinois, there are so many that can't remember the great words of President Lincoln at the Gettysburg Address.

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- AND THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, SHALL NOT PERISH FROM THE EARTH."

Lori C, “Government of the people, by the people, for the people,………”. What planet have you been on? This corporation you refer to as government has NEVER been “of the people…..”. This nation always has been owned by the global financial elite, the British Crown, the Illuminati. “We the People” are seen as nothing more than human resources, disposable human resources to be used and discarded. You think “they” care about you? That thought is laughable. Your view is the product of public education. Another product of “the elite”.

Now listen, why not read the whole Bible before you start spouting off? Jesus said, regarding marriage, that His original intentions was for one man and one woman to become one flesh, and so not to be separated or "torn apart"---but due to the hardness of their hearts He permitted their divorcing and remarrying. But "in the beginning" it was not meant to be so---and marriage starts and ends with God (i.e. in the beginning)---it was His original idea, and man is screwing it up and perverting it terribly. Sorry, but that's the original Truth. Many of you people have never read all of the Word of God, but just portions at best, and just twist it or worse dishonor it.

Amen! Uhhhhh, I mean, Agreed, 1000%! LOL
Unfortunately, NLM, I doubt most of the religion-slingers here comprehend the concept of the "Chinese Wall" our founders intentionally erected between religious and government issues.... thinking the intolerant zealots were AWOL for the requisite HS civics class! (P.S., For the self-righteous bigots here: if you don't understand the formal regulatory concept of "Chinese Wall," I'd be glad to explain it to you.)

Eric, you missed my point, maybe I should have used caps on all of his speech. “That we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom “. Those soldiers did die in vain because the “Government” that Lincoln wished for never evolved. We’ve never experienced that “new birth of freedom”. His hopes were that we remained “dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought” and to remain “dedicated to the great task remaining before us”, which we did not.

I can’t agree with you more, we are still “human resources” and that’s a shame. As a country we still struggle with basic civil rights. I will throw out some “public education” in case your education was obtained at a private school. There’s a very good chance civil rights wasn't covered in class, since the lack of having these rights doesn’t affect a majority of people attending private schools. Civil rights are the rights that protect individuals’ freedom from unwarranted infringement by governments and private organizations, and ensure one's ability to participate in the civil and political life of the state without discrimination or repression. Seems to me, that is exactly what we are all talking about here, is it not?

My “view” is a result of my Christian beliefs, and that good ole “public education”, they couldn’t be farther from those of “the elite” if I tried.

Eric Blair, are you serious? Consider getting some therapy for your paranoia! And please do some research before you embarrass yourself further. I challenge you to cite the url for your so-called FBI "statistics." I know you can't, because you have distorted facts to fulfill you own narrow-minded devices. Are you so fearful, uneducated and that you are unable to distinguish the difference between "pedophile" and "gay?" Your comparison illustrates your lack of critical thinking skills and your xenophobic view of the world. I DO feel sorry for you, if that's the case. But that's okay. You can cower in your own little corner of the world. That means the rest of us can progress and continue the business of modern life -- for ALL people, not just the people you approve of!

I'm very serious. Look up your own statistics, I did already and know the truth through years of research. I will say that it's been fun setting you up. Try being so passionate about something important, like the truth concerning 9/11. The topic on this page is only a diversion, a diversion to keep people like you looking over here when you should be looking the other way. You're being used.

Eric, I heard that the head conspiracy theorists/bigots/racists are planning a Utopia in the mountains of Idaho. Somewhere where you can all live without government intervention, no laws, rules, taxes gun restrictions. You can all tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies, while still getting giant scripts for viagra. You can stockpile all the weapons you want and live in grand splendor without worrying about what the big bad government has in store for you. You should really check into whether help with construction is needed.

New Lenox Mom, are you sure I can still get Viagra up in them there mountains in Idaho? I was on my way to Utopia and heard “no way”, no Viagra there. But that was like a month ago. Did something change? Please advise.

Again, Eric: PLEASE consider therapy! Your 9/11 and other Grassy Knoll theories make WONDERFUL HuffPo headlines but not much else. (I do hope you remember 1963, though somehow it seems doubtful.) BTW, please enlighten us all and provide the specific url for the FBI "stats" you pretend to cite.... Still waiting!

Can u recommend a therapist in this area? Or maybe a psychiatrist ‘cause I may need to be medicated. Thanks

Actually, Eric, yes I can recommend some very good, qualified therapists in the Orland area who can assess you and have their MDs prescribe appropriate medicine. Please let me know if you do, indeed, need those recs. No shame in admitting your could use some help.

If God were mad, we would all be in real trouble. But He's not---He's incredibly at peace. Why? Because He knows when the dust clears, He wins! Man is mad, real mad.

Ann, are you sure you deleted the correct post? I can tell from emails what post was deleted, yet what I consider to be a personal attack is still here. Granted, the comment deleted was not the prettiest comment of the day but....really? The root of the deleted comment is still here, are you saying that his post is civil? He's barley had a civil comment on this thread.

LOL Tamarack, I've been thinking the same thing. Really we should probably cut him some slack. It seems from the post above he can't spell Lenox either. ;-)
Basically if you look at the comments he leaves on the various Patch sites he lives for being negative and inappropriate.
I will say, his "about me" gave me quite the giggle.

"I am a 46 year old elementary school teacher in the south suburbs. I lovet Star Trek and live with my mom. I also am a scout leader.... and master of the absurd comment. The instigater that gets under peoples skin.

You can say that again!

He's a TEACHER???

Lori - I don't think you know when to spot sarcasm.

Karen - Duh...I knew it was sarcasm, at least the first part is, that's why it made me giggle.
As for the second part "and master of the absurd comment. The instigater that gets under peoples skin." That there appears to be 100% true if you look at comments he leaves on the other boards.

Love that you chose "Duh" - speaks volumes. Mainly your age.

Oh. That makes more sense. :-)

Karen - Yours is the comment that shows age.
Just so happens I'll be 50 this month...can you dig it? Next time instead of saying "Duh" I'll be sure to say "Thank you captain obvious".

I give up. What do you want me to research? The only thing I discovered was the background story on the champagne bottle, which is revolting.

Yea I thought you were hitting 50's.

Any reply yet, Fatty?

Good catch. Didnt get it at first but realized the spelling is different. That makes me look as stupid as my comments. I will correct it. Thanks, from Mr. Arbuckle.

Man oh Manoshevitz ! I hope you didnt actually pay for a degree to come up with that. You my friend are a schmendrick. Oivey!

Just what are u suggesting? I think maybe an insult. But that’s ok ‘cause I think I agree with ur post regardless of any insinuations.

Fatty Arbuckle's Champagne Bottle - English please. Interestingly enough you didn't refute what I said.

Fatty Arbuckle's Champagne Bottle - You are smart enough to know when you're being called out though. Kudos.

Yeah Bird, I didn't quite get it myself.....
Remember what you said to me earlier? "I won't let this ruffle my feathers anymore." :-)
Maybe we need to put a bird on the Patch, It seems to work with everything else. LOL

Geez, Fatty birdbrain! Sure hope none of you family members ever need a blood transfusion and "accidentally" get the HIV virus! Certainly, then that would be punishment for hedonistic ways, correct? I do feel sorry that you lack any ability to think critically. And I think if you check your version of statistics, you would find the good ole USA has more than its fair share of child molestation problems.... and tornadoes, and earthquakes, and hurricanes, and mass shootings and drive-by shoootings and rape and.... shall I continue?? Truly, the situation here is so abysmal that perhaps you should consider relocating somewhere where the populaces commits fewer sins! LOL...

Fatty - Wow, so you think the USA is spared from natural disasters because we are somehow better? You, of all people know there is plenty of exploitation and perversions in our own back yard...... ;-)
You said "there is a God". Can I ask, is there only one true God, and only one true faith? The narrow-mindedness in your statement leads me to think you may have been raised in the Catholic religion. Ahhh yes, that "punishing God". But then again maybe not, since you did throw out some Yiddish words earlier...way to keep us guessing Fatty.
Here's a couple pages that might enlighten you to the various religions throughout the world and just where the USA falls into your "punishment" category.
We may have the highest population of Christians but don't even make the top 20 when it comes to proportion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations#Christians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

Oh, wow. Your god doesn't sound very pleasant. I hope there isn't opposition, a devil or something, in the equation. How would you tell them apart?

Too bad J. Ann that you sorely lack proper historical facts. Again, the institution of a wall between church and state was intended to keep the CHURCH out of the STATE. Perhaps consider boning up on your fact before making fallacious, unsupported assertions. Second, your mistake is assuming that all people believe in Jesus or even in your version of religion. That assumption would be narrow-minded at best. Perhaps consider travelling abroad to experience something other that your little sheltered Christian corner of the universe.

Laura, I cried my way though Shindler's List again tonight...I pray to Jesus that I am always brought to tears when watching it. How's that for irony?
Kept thinking about this thread and how so many people are still against anyone who thinks or believes differently than they do.
Your God, my God, his God, her God, no God....does it really matter? All that matters is the respect for ALL people, not just the ones you "think" your God wants you to respect...Oy vey! ;-)

@ Lori C.: Exactly what would be ironic about praying to Jesus for the Jews and many others that the Nazis tried to exterminate? I see nothing ironic about that. Don't make the mistaken assumption that Jews don't believe Jesus existed or was a good person. Jews generally do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. So, please enlighten me: where is the irony in praying to Jesus about a horrid act against humanity?

WOW Laura did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or what? You yourself said Jews generally do not believe Jesus was the Messiah.The irony is, I'm praying to what I believe to be the Messiah. You don't think it's a little ironic that when a Christian prays for a Jewish friend they are praying to "something" that Jews don't believe in? My Jewish friends lightheartedly "tease" me about it all the time. I ask Him that we (the world) never forget the terrible, terrible acts that were bestowed upon them and others. The reason I kept thinking about this thread is because German authorities persecuted homosexuals and others whose behavior did not match prescribed social norms........Hummmm
It's a shame how many "Christians" on this thread seem to forget history and the lessons it's TRIED to teach us time and time again.... :-(

A Lori C.: No, I do not at all consider it ironic that you pray to Jesus for your Jewish friends. True open-mindedness does not assume that Jews would reject, be offended by or think anything untoward of your gracious offer of help via your prayers. That is my point: We all can use it from whatever well-intended source is willing to offer that help, whether via prayers, good karma or simply open-mindedness Got up on the wrong side of the bed? Nope, just curious why anyone, including Jews, would think it is ironic that a Chrisitian would pray for one of a different religious background. I see nothing unusual about that whatsoever. Makes perfect sense. Given my own multi-religious background and upbringing, I can speak from both sides of that issue quite well. It all boils down to respect for all religions and their constructive intent and for all people, not just those who agree with your beliefs. Cheers!

The number of participants in a marriage would remain the same in this bill - two. What would change is the requirement that the participants be of the opposite sex.

As stated days ago...corrected spelling even....You keep representing your constituents Renee, that is what you were elected to do. Its New Lenox not Wrigleyville. Im positive that your vote directly reflects what the majority of who you represent wishes. And that my friends is how democracy works.

Whatever her views are, are still her opinion, your personal beliefs and views are not supposed to translate into laws that push that belief and agenda. When they do, that's when you get voted out. Same sex marriage wasn't on the agenda in this state when she got elected...and lucky for those that believe in equality for ALL, her views are in the minority in this state.

Where you're wrong Tinley Reader is in assuming that people are voting for her solely because of her views on same sex marriage. Likewise, I may like Obama's view on same sex marriage more than Romney's, but I may still vote for Romney. 90% of her voter base may be against her position on this one issue, but might for her because her opponent is even more incompetent, for example.

This is an issue that will eventually be accepted by the vast majority of people in the U.S. - some (religious) people just take longer to get onboard. Just like some people took longer to grant blacks the same rights as whites, and for women to be allowed to vote. Some day gays won't be discriminated against either. It will take longer to accept that in the red states, and apparently Frankfort - but I'll say in ten years the majority of states will have made it legal.